[SR] 2009.06.24 - Sanmon Gossip (CD) [Album]

[Tokyo Jihad]

Originally Posted by kuro_neko

ummm wowwwwwww, I have no words to say to that comparison. Well, I will start by saying that I remain a bitchy cynic above and beyond anything. so when you read my posts don't think of me crying, think of me rolling my eyes a la Daria.

my point is that the expectations posted of Ringo here on this forum are unreleastic and sometimes a bit misogyonistic. Ringo is an artist, not an idol. firstly, her music is subject to unprecendentedly ridiculous standards. It would have to be the greatest thing ever released and have satisfied every fan and include every genre to making a passing cut here. Then people visually deconstruct Ringo, if not complaining that she looks old/greasy/tired/generally bad, then saying she doesn't "look like herself" (what the fuck do you guys know? do you live with her?), that she looks fake, that now she is shallow, she has collagen (if she does, good for her is what I say), that her PV's are insiplah blah blah what am I going on about all of a sudden? People always talk about these things but for some reason I decided I'm blowing up at this moment.

Not when your deconstructing Ringo like this and everyone has to play witness to it. Some of the comments I read her about photoshoots and videos and appearances make my stomach turn.

also, has any noticed there are quite a few prominent members who haven't posted reviews or impressions here because they don't want to get lost in my ramblings? probably because they have positive things to say and its sad that they feel they can't post that here without tainting their name.

[cjhobbies00]

I haven't liked Shiina's stylistic choices since...Dynamite Out.
I looked at the SG promos with the flesh colored guitar and shuddered...

[Osiris12345]

Guys, back off a little. Is kuro_neko really being that much of a drama queen? Dude has some good points. I'm sick of people calling the video "RAWR FIERCE" like most of you guys but I think it's stupid to be constantly bitching about how she looks. We sound like a bunch of high school girls gossiping about trivial shit.

"OMG DID U LIEK SEE RINGO'S NEW WIG???!??! IT WAS LIEK TOTALLY FAKE!"
"LIEK OMG, GIRLFRIEND! YEAH!"
"AND HER OUTFIT???? SHE IS SRSLY LIEK A WALKING... FASHION... DISASTER!"
"OMG I KNOW! LIEK SOMEBODY CALL THE FASHION POLICE!!!"

Who the hell cares if she's wearing a wig, looks weird, video looks cheap, or whatever? I'm sick of all this needless whiny bitching. If you're gonna complain about something, complain about the music. She's an artist, not a fashion model.

[Ringo~Bingo]

It's all just superficial gossip

[Tokyo Jihad]

hes also tired of people criticizing her music AND the criticism OF the appearance criticism apparently


RETRO: Osiris: Im talking about Neko.

[Osiris12345]

You talking about me or kuro, Jihad? Because I could really care less about people criticizing her music. I think that makes for some interesting debate. What I think is stupid is criticizing her fashion choices or how she looks. I'm sorry but that has little to no factor in my enjoyment of music whatsoever. If somebody dresses well, great. If somebody doesn't, I really could care less. She's not like KISS or someone where her look is a cheap gimmick to get people to listen to the music. The closest she's gotten to that was with Honnou and even then she focused on seriously promoting the music. So to me, it's pretty stupid to judge an artist like her on appearances. Yeah, she wants to look good but if she doesn't is it really that big a deal? I didn't realize it was important that she was still in the running to become Japan's Next Top Model.

I know kuro_neko is mentioning the criticism of the music but I think he wouldn't be as upset if people would be quiet about the appearance thing. It really annoys me too.

[cjhobbies00]

Umm...I care if a video looks cheap. I actually like good music videos. I'm weird that way.

The music video is an artform unto itself. Shiina has made great videos in the past and she has starred in some pretty plain ones. Judging a MV is not harsh, gossipy, misogynistic, etc.

Imagine if the MV for Honnou was just Shiina standing in front of a brick wall singing into a black microphone. How much fun would that have been? Yeah the music kicks ass, but the video added to its appeal.

[Osiris12345]

I'm all for judging a music video too, cj. A music video is supposed to reflect the artist's own interpretation of their work. It's meant to be judged just as much as the music itself! But pointing out little nitpicky things about how unattractive an artist looks in said video? Come on now... We're above that.

Let me give you an example. I personally hate the Tsumi to Batsu video. I think it's boring, lifeless, and overall muted in comparison to the crazyness that is the single. It's basically just Ringo sitting in a car singing and driving in it occasionally. It completely lacks the classic Ringo creativity of the Yami ni Furu Ame and Gibs videos. When the music gets frantic, the video doesn't. She pulls out a sword and then does nothing with it. It doesn't seem to mesh well with Tsumi to Batsu at all. Notice how I didn't mention her appearance in the video at all. I could go on about how bad her makeup looks but to me it's a moot point. It's trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Makeup does not a good PV make. What matters to me is how well the concept is executed.

There's also a difference between saying Ringo's costume doesn't look good and saying that she looks like she's getting fat. One is a critique of an image in the video and the other is a personal dig on the artist. People saying Ringo looks weird in this video aren't saying it because she's dressed up in a weird outfit. They're saying it because they don't like how her face looks. To me, that has nothing to do with the video concept. I may not personally like criticisms about costumes but at least they're more relevant to the video than someone's personal appearance.

[cjhobbies00]

I'm against criticizing things like weight and body shape. That's just plain wrong.

Clothes, hair, makeup...that's fair game to me. I think Shiina takes pride in the stylistic choices that she makes for the MVs. She sells her MVs; they're part of her output. She would probably be hurt if we thought that her hair and costumes were not important enough to be put under scrutiny.

You didn't mention the make up in the Tsumi video...but you should. I like to believe that Shiina is not a jpop starlet who has everything dictated to her. She controls her own image and how she would like to be portrayed in her videos. In my opinion that makes her makeup and costume fair game for criticism.

Now if someone here was just saying that her face was shaped "weird" and couldn't really come up with another reason why they didn't like the MV then that's something else entirely.

[Entry№1]

@cjhobbies: Not to argue your show of respect, but to be fair, even those things can change. I live in an area of America greatly affected by the "obesity epidemic" and yet I've still met a lot of people who have drastically changed their bodies for the better. Luckily for Ringo, she would never have to undergo such a transformation, except for maybe having to put on weight to counter her mal-absorption problems. I agree with you in the sense that it's insensitive to talk bad about someone's body, just as it is insensitive to talk bad about someone's house. It's where they live, it's who they are. But the fact remains that it can change, and for some reason that fact disturbs people.

However, getting back on topic:
Talking about her style is completely acceptable - I mean, let's not forget she's the one who put herself on the catwalk here. Time and time again.
How could you dress up like a sex kitten from outer space, a rock-prostitute practicing Ohaguro, and wear spiderweb-ed antlers on your head and not invite conversation about appearance? To deny Ringo's visual expression would be to deny a large part of her as an artist, and I think it's an insult to Fashion Designers and Makeup Artists to degrade their arts in such a way. I've not read any comment here that mocked her body, merely the way Ringo utilizes it (which, objectively, is not entirely great: she does smoke, after all).

I find myself believing in Cartesian Dualism less and less every day. You are your body, and what you do to your body shapes your totality. Ringo's essence flows from her body - her brain, her voicebox, her facial expressions, and even the little asymmetries we have all grown to love. Saying you love Ringo for just her music - which is actually an extremely broad term in itself - would be a gross over-simplification. It's perfectly fine to disagree, but it's not anyone else's fault but your own that you find the idea of a purely material existence disturbing.