Okay Then, SR B-Sides vs. TJ B-Sides

[kuro_neko]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad

Jihen B-sides are always songs that "didn't make the cut."

SR B-sides often feel like they weren't even intended to be on the album, and were recorded because she wanted to.

Saying that TJ b-sides more frequently are better than album cuts, where SR b-sides barly ever should replace songs on respective albums is not a sign that TJ b-sides > SR. It shows how much stronger SR albums are than TJ's.

I just saw this. I can't disagree more.

Phase 1-both The Lady is a Tramp and Dynamite follow Ringo's Jihen pattern for placing a revamped cover as the 1 of 2 b-sides on the single. This obviously would never go on an album, they aren't even written by the band. Kao was an experiment between Hirama and Ringo and out of all phase 1 b-sides is the only that might potentially be on an album (and it isn't, cuz it sucks). Kokoro was an experiment by Ringo and probably is the closest Jihen track we have that follows a typical SR single b-side. It seems like it was a single spontaneous creation she labored over with no intentions of ever releasing (the story goes she did it in one day to present to her family/friends at her birthday one year).

phase 2- adult- again, a cover. rakujitsu could have been on the album, but it was probably left off since there is already a strong ballad closer, Tegami. It probably came down to those two songs and which one was on the album/single. They are both pretty strong and interchangeable in my opinion.

variety-the only album with b-sides from an obvious album session. that being said, all 4 are just as strong, if not stronger (kaban no nakami, pinnochio, karada) than what is on the album.

overall, this looks to me like most of the TJ b-sides were culled from sources other than sessions from recording/editing an album. a lot of them are covers and one off's written for different purposes. the main exception, variety, has b-sides arguably stronger than the actual album they were left off...

Ringo's are the opposite of what you said IMO. A lot of the early stuff, minus covers, were songs that were written in the early days and appear right alongside the a-sides in her demos. Songs like Remote Controller, Sigma, Aozora, they could have easily been put on albums with slight changes in production. A lot of them were written together with all the later a-sides, so of course they are strong, written during her "glory days." I mean, you have to wonder how she picked what for which album and b-sides and all that. Her b-sides are universarlly strong, but the fact that she hasn't had any real solid original b-sides since the SS-era says something. (KZK was alt edits, Ringo no Uta had alt edits and Ringo Catalogue, not quite an "original song" really. KNYK had instrumental and alt edit, AT had SG, original, but mainly a "preview" track.) She does have b-sides that have no place anywhere but on a single, but most of them are from the MM and SS sessions.

[Scribble R]

Regardless of whether TJ singles are songs that didn't make the cut blah blahh blah, I'm curious to see if people can put together a list of TJ B-sides they consider superior to solo.

TJ really only has Kokoro and Rakujitsu (Which I think isn't all that, anyway) For solo Ringo you have a long list of decent to strong tracks, such as Ichijiku no Hana, Aozora, Toki blah blah, Suberidai, Memai, Mellow, Remote Controller, Fukou Jithing, Aisaika no Choshoku, Sid to Hakuchumumumu, 17 etc. But TJ's b-sides are mostly bad to decent tracks.

I respect your opinions, but isn't it a tad crazy to say that TJ's b-sides, minus Kokoro, even touch her solo ones? I mean, I like(d) Koi no Maboroshi, but it's a novelty song.

[mizer_unmei]

"Koi wa Maboroshi" is so not a novelty song! It's got such a great composition to it and it's so different from the original that it's rightly a great TJ track by itself. It's definitely my favorite TJ b-side.

[Osiris12345]

Since I seem to have a fetish for making lists, I'll do just that. I'll categorize each B-side into groups. Blue's Ringo and red's Jihen. I'm omitting the Stem single since those were all released on KSK.

God Tier
Aisaika no Choshoku
High Tier
Suberidai
Aozora
Mayonaka Sid
Kokoro
Koi wa Maboroshi
Rakujitsu
Kaban no Nakami
Middle Tier
Toki Ga Bousou Suru
Tokyo no Onna
Sigma
Can't Take My Eyes Off You
17
Ringo Catalogue
Karisome Otome
Superficial Gossip
The Lady Is A Tramp
Dynamite
Pinocchio
Karada
Kao
Lower Tier
Memai
Remote Controller
Le Salle de Bain (blasphemy?)
Sakuran
Crap Tier
Unconditional Love
Rinne Highlight
Unlistenable Tier
BB. Queen

Ringo has the (dis)advantage of having more B-sides so it's really a double-edged sword. She dominates the middle tier but at the same time completely dominates the lower and crap. I could give this to Ringo on the merit that BB. Queen gets unlistenable and Aisaika gets godly but I just find Jihen's B-sides to overall be more consistent. Ringo's B-sides are definitely good overall but sometimes she gets a tad too experimental or just flat out boring and it doesn't pay off.

[Ringo~Bingo]

Memai's in the lower tier???
Maboroshi's up in the elite section???

GTFO

[Scribble R]

Hahahaha, I can't say I agree with that list, Osiris. The only high-tier TJ song is Kokoro (Well, Mid-High tier). And Memai being that low? =O

[bromithia]

That list be whack.

[mizer_unmei]

Memai, Remote Controller and Rinne Highlight beast nearly all of TJ's b-sides.

[Tokyo Jihad]

Neko: How does the fact that some b-sides were written a bazillion years ago matter when the very same is true for many MM/SS songs? If the fact Shiina has written very few B-sides since KZK is a slight, then so should it be to all TWO Jihen B-sides she's ever written.

As for Osiris' tier...can we put La Salle in the crap bin as well?

[kuro_neko]

my point is that the MM and SS works, along with the b-sides, all have a common origin dating 10 plus years ago to her teens for the most part, most of those songs are the ones people say are genius, whereas everything afterwards is what people break up over. I just bring it up because there is that saying, you know, about lightning, and it striking one time. Ringo might have had quite the muse as a teen, but the fact that she hasn't continued to consistently put out b-sides of high quality original music, and has instead turned to covers, alt arrangements, and band member's songs, plays a monumental role in why people say "nu-ringo" and her b-sides suck, while MM and SS go up on the pedestal.