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Old 2015.12.31, 11:27 PM   #1591
zeroryouko
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Wow, thanks for sharing your insight! I never would have guessed there was so much depth to the physical part of her performance.

I think you're quite right to point out Ringo's exploration of her identity through her work - she has explored Eastern vs. Western identity all the way back through MM. But it strikes me that she's also spent a lot of time exploring her identity as a woman - in terms of what that means in comparison to being male, and in terms of what being a woman means in Japanese society.

This makes me wonder if her Kouhaku performances, and her inclusion of Aya and Bambi in them, are not meant to be a bit subversive on some level. Don't get me wrong, Aya and Bambi are certainly more than talented enough to merit their inclusion on that basis alone - but do you ever get the sense that it's about more than that? I somewhat glibly implied in a previous post that she might be doing it simply to shock a conservative audience (which, IMO, does have a value beyond mere impetuousness). But maybe there's more to it - maybe she's trying to send a message about accepting people wherever they may fall on the spectrum - east or west, male or female, homosexual or heterosexual. Or, maybe she's trying to say something about what women can accomplish on their own merits and without male intervention.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it - but if she's used the blandness of the Coke song to sneak a message like that into so public a forum, then my hat is off to her.

I still want a version with real vocals though!
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Old 2016.01.01, 12:12 AM   #1592
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No dance is gonna hide the fact that the song is pathetic. Unless it involves a breakdancing stilt walker dressed as Uncle Sam with a rising Sun background and lots of lesbians
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Old 2016.01.01, 01:07 AM   #1593
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Originally Posted by Entry№1 View Post
This performance was unexpected, but pretty awesome. My thoughts:
  • Ringo's complex relationship with her identity as a Japanese person who is a fan/practitioner of Western-style pop music is reflected in the choreography (a blend of vogue/waacking and traditional Japanese dance), costume, and music. I always find it interesting how she navigates her identity in her art, effortlessly combining Eastern and Western influences.
  • Ringo's choreography (probably created by Aya Sato, the dancer on Ringo's right) is the most dancing I've ever seen her do for one song. While this is mere speculation, I think Ringo was *really* nervous about it, given she very rarely does any kind of complex dancing and was a dancer as a child (until she was supposedly told she'd never be a dancer because of her asymmetries). Notice how much her voice was quaking on the last note right before Nagaku Mijikai Matsuri started.
  • What a lot of people don't really get is that Aya and Bambi are a couple. Ringo performing vogue (already a queer dance form) seated between two women in a lesbian relationship is pretty satisfying to me as a homosexual man. lol
Sure, she didn't sing, but she did give one great performance.
I agree! She really does pull off the choreography with flair. And the Awa Odori dance made its appearance too!!

I'm not sure if it was meant literally, but on one of the instagram photos with Ringo and AyaBambi, the poster thanks Ringo for memorizing AyaSato's choreography in "a short time."

I know a lot of people are not here for Ringo as any sort of dance performer, and I can understand being upset by lipsynching on this kind of show, etc. but perhaps this is a part of her interest in expanding her scope as an artist.

I feel like she probably hasn't been the Ringo people want her to be for a while, but as a fan of Ringo the person I'm excited to see how her expression of herself evolves from here.

Also notice that the outfits AyaBambi wear are displaying their matching tattoos! That honestly gave me shivers.

ETA
Originally Posted by zeroryouko View Post
Or, maybe she's trying to say something about what women can accomplish on their own merits and without male intervention.
someone I follow mentioned this as the reason Ukigmo and HZM were basically lax and sprawled out during the performance haha. I would really, really love to hear her sing it live!

I can't decide if she won't because it's her Dance Number, or because she's really the biggest Coke-anti of us all...
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Old 2016.01.01, 01:21 AM   #1594
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Originally Posted by zeroryouko View Post
Wow, thanks for sharing your insight! I never would have guessed there was so much depth to the physical part of her performance.
Thank you! I think the blending of East and West is most apparent when she is vogueing/waacking while her feet are tucked underneath her. Japanese dance such as Kabuki (which she blatantly referenced way back in JCHI) utilizes very little lower body movement - one very famous Japanese dancer (I believe it was Bandou Tamasaburou V or, less likely, Kazuo Ohno) said Western dance was low-brow because of the "jumping" in it. Hahaha. The upper body/hand motions in waacking also have crossover potential owing to the subtle and precise hand movements in Kabuki. Many of the most popular waacking dancers in the world are from Japan, as waacking has its origins on the American West coast in the 70s. I'd almost say waacking is more popular in Japan than vogue, which is more popular in the US, but more East coast centric.

Originally Posted by zeroryouko View Post
I think you're quite right to point out Ringo's exploration of her identity through her work - she has explored Eastern vs. Western identity all the way back through MM. But it strikes me that she's also spent a lot of time exploring her identity as a woman - in terms of what that means in comparison to being male, and in terms of what being a woman means in Japanese society.

This makes me wonder if her Kouhaku performances, and her inclusion of Aya and Bambi in them, are not meant to be a bit subversive on some level. Don't get me wrong, Aya and Bambi are certainly more than talented enough to merit their inclusion on that basis alone - but do you ever get the sense that it's about more than that? I somewhat glibly implied in a previous post that she might be doing it simply to shock a conservative audience (which, IMO, does have a value beyond mere impetuousness). But maybe there's more to it - maybe she's trying to send a message about accepting people wherever they may fall on the spectrum - east or west, male or female, homosexual or heterosexual. Or, maybe she's trying to say something about what women can accomplish on their own merits and without male intervention.
I think she would support that message. I remember reading once that Ringo made a statement in an interview inclusive of gay people by purposely not changing the pronouns in the covers she did. It also jives with the Honnou video, which was supposed to represent feminine sexual autonomy rather than merely appeal to male lesbian porn consumption.

On the other hand, she's been notoriously pragmatic in recent interviews about her role and ambitions as a singer-songwriter. I don't think she's very political in any way, but I think she is obviously distrustful of both people who completely shirk Japanese culture and nationalists both (see "Fuck off, G-men"). She greatly admires Mukai Shutoku, who also writes more overtly-political lyrics and is similarly caught between worlds, musically. I think his presence on so much of her work speaks more to her political views than a lot of other things.

Originally Posted by zeroryouko View Post
Maybe I'm reading too much into it - but if she's used the blandness of the Coke song to sneak a message like that into so public a forum, then my hat is off to her.

I still want a version with real vocals though!
Me too. I'd love a stripped-down electric guitar cover of every song she ever wrote, a la Cappuccino. I think, at the core of it, it's a good pop song. Maybe simplistic by her standards, but still way more avant-garde than common pop with its jazz chords and rhythms. I think if it weren't for the vocoder, we'd not have pigeon-holed it as a Top 40 track so easily.
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Old 2016.01.01, 06:36 AM   #1595
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I'm sorry but I think some are reaching with these artistic interpretations. She just wanted a cool, classic look with an edge, which is the same aesthetic she's been playing with for years, and she constructed something that passes for it. No one was researching the history of vogue for this dance and the dancers just happened to fit her aesthetic of cool/edgy.
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Old 2016.01.01, 07:49 AM   #1596
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Originally Posted by deadgrandma View Post
Sa Dingdings performance on CCTV however, was amazing.
lol what? Even Chinese like me don't give Sa Dingding a luck, and her new album was boring and flat. However, you should enjoy the "old" Sa Dingding which I think it's more enjoyable that her all mainstream songs, which are just wacky and not catchy at all.
lol what
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Old 2016.01.01, 11:46 AM   #1597
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Originally Posted by a_grumble_cake View Post
I'm sorry but I think some are reaching with these artistic interpretations. She just wanted a cool, classic look with an edge, which is the same aesthetic she's been playing with for years, and she constructed something that passes for it. No one was researching the history of vogue for this dance and the dancers just happened to fit her aesthetic of cool/edgy.
By 'some' I presume you mean myself? I think it's more presumptuous to think you can read SR's mind to know that's not what she intended, especially given all the historical and cultural references she regularly includes in her lyrics. Besides, I never claimed she researched the history of vogue to do this, I only claimed that vogue/waacking in some ways matches the sensibilities of traditional Japanese dance intuitively. I shouldn't be surprised by this response though, any time someone contextualizes a work of art it tends to alienate...
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Old 2016.01.01, 01:55 PM   #1598
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Originally Posted by harry4567 View Post
lol what? Even Chinese like me don't give Sa Dingding a luck, and her new album was boring and flat. However, you should enjoy the "old" Sa Dingding which I think it's more enjoyable that her all mainstream songs, which are just wacky and not catchy at all.
lol what
Chinese people don't like Sa Dingding... And??? I've known this for ages....

Unless this is a joke post....


Also regarding this whole history of dance thing.... I'd be far more impressed if Ringo was just like "fuck singing on this crappy grandparents show". But I doubt thats really what she was thinking. Nope Im pretty sure she was thinking about what the cash from being on it was gonna buy her next.
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Old 2016.01.01, 04:24 PM   #1599
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Originally Posted by Entry№1 View Post
By 'some' I presume you mean myself? I think it's more presumptuous to think you can read SR's mind to know that's not what she intended, especially given all the historical and cultural references she regularly includes in her lyrics. Besides, I never claimed she researched the history of vogue to do this, I only claimed that vogue/waacking in some ways matches the sensibilities of traditional Japanese dance intuitively. I shouldn't be surprised by this response though, any time someone contextualizes a work of art it tends to alienate...
If I were only talking about you then I would just quote you. I apologize if I came off as harsh or rude but I find her current performances such as this to be so artificial and soulless, that attaching any deep meaning to it just seems like buying a knockoff (also, I was referring to idea of vogue as a queer dance and the performance as some sort of subversive gay message).
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Old 2016.01.02, 09:13 AM   #1600
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Originally Posted by Entry№1 View Post
This performance was unexpected, but pretty awesome. My thoughts:
  • Ringo's complex relationship with her identity as a Japanese person who is a fan/practitioner of Western-style pop music is reflected in the choreography (a blend of vogue/waacking and traditional Japanese dance), costume, and music. I always find it interesting how she navigates her identity in her art, effortlessly combining Eastern and Western influences.
  • Ringo's choreography (probably created by Aya Sato, the dancer on Ringo's right) is the most dancing I've ever seen her do for one song. While this is mere speculation, I think Ringo was *really* nervous about it, given she very rarely does any kind of complex dancing and was a dancer as a child (until she was supposedly told she'd never be a dancer because of her asymmetries). Notice how much her voice was quaking on the last note right before Nagaku Mijikai Matsuri started.
  • What a lot of people don't really get is that Aya and Bambi are a couple. Ringo performing vogue (already a queer dance form) seated between two women in a lesbian relationship is pretty satisfying to me as a homosexual man. lol
Sure, she didn't sing, but she did give one great performance.
Isn't this too much projecting? Unlike people in "advanced" Western cultures people in Japan and elsewhere don't really think much about "identity" issues and even gendering and queering. People tend to have a "simpler" mindset. I bet she simply thought the dance "looked cool". Same with the vogue/Aya and Bambi. SR likes looking cool and doing cool stuff, and she's damn good at it.
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