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Old 2008.04.15, 07:22 PM   #1
Glathannus
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Default Xenogears

Originally Posted by jigenbakuda View Post
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Is xenogears the game with kos-mos? My friends raved about the soundtrack, one even made a (rap) beat to a song in there. Oh and I listen to the secret of evermore soundtrack like you listen to xenogears (thanks god for .spc rips!). Too bad I do not hear secret of evermore in shiina's music...
Xenogears was a SquareSoft game based on some old german novels, and while they were in the middle of producing gameplay or cutscenes for the second half of the game, the lead developer for Xenogears walked out of SquareSoft. So there's a lot of moments in the second disc where you never actually play - you just stare at one of the main characters telling you a story for what's happening in the world, with a brief slideshow. It is otherwise a great game, but there's no KOS-MOS. You're thinking of Xenosaga.

Xenogears predates Xenosaga by at least 5 years. Xenosaga had the same lead developer (and many of the same co-developers), but under a different publisher (Namco). Officially the games aren't related, due to the copyrights on Xenogears that Square won't share with anybody. Fans are especially irritated by this, because at first, years before there was even talk of another game being developed, Square basically tried to sweep Xenogears under a rug for the North American release, and there's a reason for that.

The Xenogears storyline includes multi-layered conspiracies, where the deeper you go, the more likely you are to be offended if you're a Christian, though in hindsight many Christians recognize Xenogears as an elaborate work of fiction, and they simply don't mind. Anyhow, Square was afraid of the public outcry that could get sparked against Xenogears (Catholics managed to get Dogma removed from theaters fairly quickly), so Square never advertised the game in North America, and didn't manufacture very many copies. The few consumers who completed the gameplay, fell absolutely in love with the storyline and music and most of the gameplay, so popularity of Xenogears spread purely by word of mouth, until copies were sold out.

Xenogears remained out-of-print for several years, until it was finally re-released as a "Greatest Hit", even though it technically may not have qualified as a legitimate Greatest Hit to begin with, because not enough copies of the game already existed, in order to reach the prerequisite sales target that was met by all other Greatest Hit PS1 games.

So when the time came for the lead developer to produce prequels (there was a legitimate storyline opportunity for this because Xenogears referred to itself as "Episode V" at the end of the credits), Square wouldn't license or sell the rights for Xenogears. Square even pondered producing their own prequels without any of the original developers (because everyone already left Square). Fans were absolutely outraged, so Square ended up doing nothing but sitting on their ownership of the Xenogears franchise.

"Xenosaga Episode I" was released under Namco, with very similar themes, and characters who seemed to be related, but Namco and the developers couldn't legally say the game was related to Xenogears. Even Yasunori Mitsuda (who had composed for Xenogears) was on-board with Xenosaga. But after Xenosaga Episode I, Yasunori Mitsuda pretty much dropped out of the videogame industry. He was backed by the London Philharmonic Orchestra on Xenosaga (unlike Xenogears and Chrono Cross - which mostly used state-of-the-art MIDIs at the time), so Yasunori Mitsuda went out with a bang.

[Off-Topic]Yuki Kajiura replaced him on Xenosaga Episode II, and the problem I personally have with her, is that not only can nobody replace Yasunori Mitsuda, but Xenosaga Episode II was mostly five songs recycled into a bunch of different styles, and after familiarizing yourself with the whole soundtrack, you can easily recognize her other soundtracks as being hers, upon hearing them. It's because the 'variety' of styles within one soundtrack, is always the same when comparing one Yuki Kajiura soundtrack to another. My favored composers are much more flexible (and less recognizable) than that.

As for Secret of Evermore, I still haven't played that game, but I'm a moderately big fan of Jeremy Soule, who did the music for that game, as well other games I'm more familiar with (Neverwinter Nights, Morrowind, Dungeon Siege, Guild Wars). I wish I could get my hands on a Dungeon Siege soundtrack, but not even the Gas Powered Games employees seem to have such a thing. Extracting MP3s out of the game itself, just isn't the same thing. Anyway, Jeremy Soule is kinda guilty of having his own recognizable style too, but... I like that style better than Yuki Kajiura, and when he got into Guild Wars expansions, he started to actually make different style music! I almost wasn't going to buy Guild Wars because I've learned from experience what a waste of time MMOs are, but the collector's editions come with the soundtracks, ontop of the fact that I was coincidently in the right place at the right time (not a convention actually), to get Guild Wars merchandise signed by the development team as the core game was just coming out.
[/Off-Topic]

Anyway, I'm straying "Off-Topic" (what word that is).
*throws in some tags for warning to all but the most vigilant readers*

Xenogears is my all-time favorite RPG, and I consider its soundtrack to be Yasunori Mitsuda's overall best work. He does have some epics in Xenosaga Episode I, especially with the real instruments and all, but the game only has one battle song while Xenogears had several to alternate between (and I'm not just talking about bosses having their own unique songs - though a lot of them do), and you were almost always listening to music in Xenogears, while Xenosaga had most of the music reserved for cutscenes. Did I mention that you spend 1 in every 5 seconds (on average), staring at cutscenes in Xenosaga Episode I?

I own all the other Xenosagas too, but haven't played any of them yet, because I'm very dispirited about that series in general, and would rather spend time with Shin Megami Tensei. Yeah, every damn character has a mysterious past, and yes, I'd like to uncover some of that, but I'm getting the sense that this storyline doesn't have anywhere near as many layers as Xenogears did. Nothing has more layers than the Xenogears storyline. Coming from a guy whose posts are some of the longest you've ever seen, I hope you take that statement seriously. The game does require some patience (as does the length of my posts) in a couple of frustrating turning points though. [Off-Topic]Yeah, Morrowind has over a hundred quests and it's nonlinear, but do you feel like you're making an impact when you complete most of that?

Note: I haven't played Oblivion because I'm hesitant to buy a 'real' video card. That game will gobble up just about any computer hardware you can throw at it. But nothing is as demanding as Crysis.
[/Off-Topic]
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Old 2008.04.15, 08:53 PM   #2
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^almost as much text as a normal sitting of Xenogears would have. =p
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Old 2008.04.15, 10:02 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad View Post
^almost as much text as a normal second disc sitting of Xenogears would have. =p
Fixed.

But really though, with how deep the conspiracies in Dan Brown novels get, and with all of that being New York Times Bestsellers, I would think Xenogears would be far more popular than it is. After you read enough Dan Brown novels, you discover that the backbone of every storyline is the same, just like every Scooby Doo episode is the same. Xenogears is nowhere near as predictable.

I'm a big Fight Club fan (for the twist at least as much as the dialog), but I'm an even bigger Xenogears fan, and the Xenogears dialog is nowhere near as... quotable, so basically the twists are epic. The battle system is also really slick (it flows so much more nicely than other RPGs I've played - including Xenosaga). If all the game had was storyline, I wouldn't be raving about it.

The main thing I can't stand about the game, is the English dubbing during the anime cutscenes, but thankfully those are a very slim minority of the game.

Some people think "Wow, wouldn't it be cool if there were a Xenogears movie?", but actually the LOST model would work much better. You'd need at least one whole season to tell the story, build your attachment to the characters and your presumptions about the villains, and then the turning points would be more shocking than if you tried to cram it all into two hours. I'd still probably rather play the game even if a series had the complete storyline, but I'd still check out the series. I know there's a Xenosaga series, but that's not the same thing.
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Old 2008.04.16, 10:05 PM   #4
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Did you listen to the Xenosaga III OST yet? It's a looooot better than XS2.
Also I think XS3 is the best game out of the three. It has the perfect character design (I'm very, very sad that they didn't used it for all three episodes, it's just p e r f e c t), the best fight system and the storyline is wrapped up better than I ever expected after episode 2. It has got the best visuals in a PS2 game and yay the voice actors from episode 1 are back^^
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Old 2008.04.19, 07:16 PM   #5
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Let me first say, I am a 100% nintendo fanboy. All the way to the core...

The only thing that has ever made me regret my brand of choice was square enix . They are my favorite developer under nintendo. Well to me one of the main reasons I enjoyed square so much (nintendo also) was because of the soundtracks. I heard some of the most memorable music from video games. I have songs burned in my memory from games I did not even own (of course I do not remember names, but melodies... I remember so many). I preferred video game music to recording artists. Some video game music is instantly recognizable, those I just refer to as a genre (ex. man this song [pop or otherwise] really sounds castlevania), anyways I am just rambling, lol. I am trying to get to, I never played such awesome games as xenogears because I did not believe in ps1's. It was on ps1 right? Looking back, I kind of regret it. But I just wish I had more friends as a youth, that way I could of played more games <tear drop> Well after hearing about this game, I am terribly intrigued. It makes me want to get the rom, or iso rip of the game.

Tell me something how was the battle system? Was it an active action rpg, or was it turn based? Perhaps it was none of the above. How was it? You also say xenogears had multiple battle themes, was this akin to ff4, were different types of battles had different music, or was it just on shuffle (you have a 15% chance to hear this song)?

It really sounds like xenogears got screwed. I do not know the history of video games in the same manor. I only know of the actual game... I feel so inferior. Is this what it feels like to be pwned? Anyways, the history of this game is interesting. I wonder why the producer guy left? Was he fired? Why leave a great game half way in? I also have never played a half finished game (played some rushed together game, but never half finished).

The guy who did the soundtrack to this game, was he on the chronotrigger team too?

I can not talk about this subject, my mind wanders to too many other subjects. I have not discussed video game with anyone in a long time. Last time I did was with the person that introduced me to ocremix.org. That was a couple years ago, I was still in college then. I can talk about some soundtracks all day. God knows my little sister caught the brunt of some of my otaku venting, but she like secret of evermore so we talk about that sometimes

Oh yea jeremy soule, I have never played any other game he was on, I read is primarily a pc game composer. I do not play pc games... So I can not compare to say, he sounds very similar on all his games. But I really would not mind, give me more "tower of ivor" you SOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! excuse me that just slipped out.

I must stop typing now, I am no longer making sense...
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Old 2008.04.20, 04:05 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by jigenbakuda View Post
Let me first say, I am a 100% nintendo fanboy. All the way to the core...

The only thing that has ever made me regret my brand of choice was square enix . They are my favorite developer under nintendo. Well to me one of the main reasons I enjoyed square so much (nintendo also) was because of the soundtracks. I heard some of the most memorable music from video games. I have songs burned in my memory from games I did not even own (of course I do not remember names, but melodies... I remember so many). I preferred video game music to recording artists. Some video game music is instantly recognizable, those I just refer to as a genre (ex. man this song [pop or otherwise] really sounds castlevania), anyways I am just rambling, lol. I am trying to get to, I never played such awesome games as xenogears because I did not believe in ps1's. It was on ps1 right? Looking back, I kind of regret it. But I just wish I had more friends as a youth, that way I could of played more games <tear drop> Well after hearing about this game, I am terribly intrigued. It makes me want to get the rom, or iso rip of the game.

Tell me something how was the battle system? Was it an active action rpg, or was it turn based? Perhaps it was none of the above. How was it? You also say xenogears had multiple battle themes, was this akin to ff4, were different types of battles had different music, or was it just on shuffle (you have a 15% chance to hear this song)?

It really sounds like xenogears got screwed. I do not know the history of video games in the same manor. I only know of the actual game... I feel so inferior. Is this what it feels like to be pwned? Anyways, the history of this game is interesting. I wonder why the producer guy left? Was he fired? Why leave a great game half way in? I also have never played a half finished game (played some rushed together game, but never half finished).

The guy who did the soundtrack to this game, was he on the chronotrigger team too?

I can not talk about this subject, my mind wanders to too many other subjects. I have not discussed video game with anyone in a long time. Last time I did was with the person that introduced me to ocremix.org. That was a couple years ago, I was still in college then. I can talk about some soundtracks all day. God knows my little sister caught the brunt of some of my otaku venting, but she like secret of evermore so we talk about that sometimes

Oh yea jeremy soule, I have never played any other game he was on, I read is primarily a pc game composer. I do not play pc games... So I can not compare to say, he sounds very similar on all his games. But I really would not mind, give me more "tower of ivor" you SOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! excuse me that just slipped out.

I must stop typing now, I am no longer making sense...
Yea, the composer of Xenogears was the lead composer of Chrono Trigger. He made almost all the songs, but when he got sick, Uematsu wrote the rest of the song for him (Chrono Trigger).

The battle system was some kind of ATB turn based system. When the character made his turn, you had to press X, square or triangle for an hard, middle or light attack. Hard costs 3 points, middle 2 points, and a light attack 1 point. In the beginning you only have 6 points per turn and you can't stock them. You have to use a borad varitey of sequences to learn "special attacks" which are autmatically activated once you learned them, when you follow a given sequence. Of course when you use the special attacks you don't get exp form learning new special attacks.
That was more than fun. It was probably one of the best battle systems I've ever played, together with Chrono Trigger and Lost Odyssey (weird, they are all from the same battle system designer )
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Old 2008.04.20, 08:34 AM   #7
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I would have enjoyed Xenogears more if not for the ridiculous script/dialogue. Everyone in the game (even little kids at times) has this pretentious, overblown way of speaking (and they speak a lot, like, even-more-than-Glath a lot) that just isn't believable at all. Now I'll admit that the subject matter doesn't really allow for much in the way of humor or carefree attitudes, but DAYUM!

Not to mention the religious references which attempt to make the game "deep": sometimes a name is pulled out of this religious text or that religious text and slapped onto some unassuming dope for no apparent reason at all. The game would be just as deep without these hamfisted references. I liked the philosophical/psychological elements of the game, though.

I also liked whatever little I remember of the battle system (but not the gears battle system, which was pretty bad).

The music was fuckin' sweet, though. My Wikipedia skills tell me the composer is Yasunori Mitsuda, who also worked on Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross, whose music also rocked me hardcore to the fibula and tibia.

Overall, I liked Xenogears. Not necessarily my cup of tea, but I get why so many others like it as much as they do.
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Old 2008.04.20, 08:52 AM   #8
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Oh that sounds interesting. Never played a game like that. I would like to try out that battle system. But because I played mostly older rpgs (in exception of the tales series), I am very used to the turn based type of combat. Even in current rpgs on the gba/ds, they are turn-based,for the most part (more the gba than the ds). I think that I need a break from the old type of fighting.

I am a very big fan of the chronotrigger soundtrack, so I have no doubts that xenogears' ost was as awesome as you guys claim. I would just download the xenogears ost, but I find that video game music is only special to me as if I played thru it. That way I have a connection to the music. When I listen to the ocarina of time ost, I remember all the music and the emotions I felt when playing thru the game at that particular moment... So the xenogears ost can not be listen to as music, until i have beaten the game, lol
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Old 2008.04.20, 09:41 AM   #9
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The battle systems IS turn based. But turn based as in FF7.
And if you like older RPGs, I must say that the PSX is THE rpg console.
Dragon Quest 7 (Or Dragon Warrior 7) would be my second fav rpg of all time (PSX, too)
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Old 2008.04.21, 06:36 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Cosmo! View Post
I would have enjoyed Xenogears more if not for the ridiculous script/dialogue.
"My father!?
You mean my dad!?"

Seriously?
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